ok so Toby is nearly 7 months old and for a fair few weeks it has been awesome - naps great (though only 30 minutes) nighttime fab sleeps for 12 hours. Goes to sleep awake - no dummy etc no music - really happy no crying etc etc

so why for the last 5 days is he screaming when he goes anywhere near his cot - we are doing cc - please dont shoot me down - and it works within the 10 minutes but tonight we are now on the second 10 minutes and it is killing me but i cant give in otherwise it will a total waste.

why has this happened? He sleeps in pushchair in car on grannies bed - why the problem with the cot????

Any ideas/help or advice - thank you x x x

It's probably not the cot, it's probably being left on his own to cry and he's making negative associations that might be hard to break, nevermind the probable 'habits' that the CC was meant to break, sounds to me like he's upset at the 'technique'. I wouldn't want to go to bed either if I knew I had all that coming. No shooting down in flames just my opinion.

Oh p.s I'm not sure a 7month old has the cognitive capacity to "try you" I tend to think a babies needs at this age are genuine, wilful or not.

[Modified by: dollywotsit on June 01, 2010 07:55 PM]

What is your bedtime routine like? Do you put him straight into his cot or is there a winddown routine in his nursery? Do you stay by his cot and reassure or just leave him in the room?
I am sure that with a bit more info, you will get lots of useful advice.

Oh p.s I'm not sure a 7month old has the cognitive capacity to "try you" I tend to think a babies needs at this age are genuine, wilful or not.

I couldn't agree more (Not shooting down CC if that's what people choose, but isn't it meant to only work after the LO is about a year and can take it in?!)

happysmurf it's 6months+ that they reccommend using CC.

I was a bit confused reading your post (pregnancy brain i do apologise), so has he gone from sleeping happily in his cot, to screaming when you put him to bed? When did the CC come into it?

Are you doing the CC as a result of him screaming the last 5days.. is this a new introduction?

I feel I can't respond with the right advice without knowing.

P.S. don't let anybody make you feel pants for using CC. You didn't ask anybodies oppinion on that method.

xx

Thanks Linzi, wasn't sure. Don' t really know much about it tbh (we are lucky that LO likes his bed - like his mummy!) but I agree, if it's right for you then that's your decision as baby's mummy.

If it has just come on could it be teething? separation anxiety?

Just doing some mental math, your little one was born in late autumn, yes? So days have gotten light for a lot longer and I know this really throws my los each year, do you have a black out blind? Mine can't sleep for the night, if it's too bright. Also from a psychological perspective your lo is at about the right age to start the whole awareness of others and start to be a bit clingy. It's just a phase which will pass with enough reassurance. CC may be a bit counter productive if this happened to be the source of the issue, but it's totally an if. Have you just gone back to work? Maybe a new change in routine.

Also is he teething? I found with my wisdom teeth that during the day I could distract myself but I'd lay down to sleep and my jaw throbbed and I'd develop a pounding headache. Makes me really sympathetic to babes teething now, lol.

xx

thanks linzimc - you are right as always i am asking for peoples help not their opinions - and as always there are a few that give their opinions without realising what effect it has on the mother sat at home in tears becasue she doesnt know what to do - so thanks for that ladies

anyway - we have only started doing cc since friday as toby suddenly started screaming not wanting to go into his cot - i paniced at first but soon realised he just wanted me to be there which i would but i go back to work running a pub for a corporate cimpany that dont give a monkeys about Toby - so i need to get this sorted as it will be unsettling enough not havinh me there in the day.

I feel so guilty every minute seems like an hour but i know i am doing the right thing to prepare him for the next few months. I just dont know why it has suddenly started. He is teething - they are almost cut and it has been much tougher than usual becasue of this but i really dont think this is why he is screaming - god i dont know. Anyway it took 1 x 10 minutes then 2 minutes of shhhiing then 4 more minutes before he zonked.

Any helpful advice would be appreciated x x x

thanks hedgie - he has a blind and a curtain but it is still really light - it has been like this for a few weeks now and not bothered him.

If it is his teeth as you say (i am now getting flashbacks of wisdom teeth) what should i do - i cant take the pain away - i use teetha granules ashton and parson bonjela and if it has really bothered him in the day then i will give him calpol. He still sleeps till 7.30am

I also feel that they can try you - he is a clever little monkey - and he knows i am a soft touch whereas daddy isnt - he has bright red hair and a personality to match!

Another question - during the day i cuddle and kiss him all the time - i tell him at least once a minute how much o love him - am i making him too clingy?

Summer,

I am really sorry that I haven't really got useful advice but wanted to say that I feel your pain as Grace has been the same for a few weeks (she is 8.5 months) having previously been fine at self settling in her cot. There are tears from me most evenings at the moment.

I have been trying to use CC; it worked initially but no longer seems to for us as if I try it, she tends to scream to the point of vomiting I do think it could be teeth, although I have spoken to the HV with whom I get on really well and she thinks it is much more likely separation anxiety.

She recommended something called the 'disappearing chair' which is the next thing I think I will try. She said to put DD to bed, but remain in the room, on a chair, and just sit there or read a magazine or something until DD drops off. Each night, move further away from her until outside of the door. I am not sure if this will work for me as I think Grace would just want to play, but perhaps it may be worth a shot?

I do hope things improve soon; sleep issues are so hard.

Em xx

Summer76, I think you're right about them being very clever and aware at a young age, my lo stops crying the minute she hears us coming up the stairs, and starts again if we don't go into her room-she's 5 months!

Sounds like a silly question, but is he tired-or over-tired- when you put him down? Pops can be fractious & fight her naps when she's over-tired, or not tired. Have you tried putting him in his cot just to play with some toys whilst you put some clothes away, or tidy up in there?

I know that teething could certainly be the problem, maybe a dose of calpol and see how he is?

I don't think it's possible to cuddle, kiss & love a baby too much, and don't think that this will make him clingy at all. I'd make the most of it whilst you can, how many 13 year old boys do you know that want cuddles & kisses with their mummy :lol: ? I hope that it's just a phase for you, and is back to himself again xx

Hi hon
I'm not anti cc - but would only do it if you are sure there is nothing really wrong with LO. As you are not sure, and he could be in pain from teeth, I personally would hold out. It might be just a phase, in which case, using whatever gentle methods work to get him to sleep could be used for a couple of weeks (ie - rocking, staying with him, shushing, patting, rubbing his tummy, singing etc). If things are still bad after a fortnight, then reconsider cc if you feel that's the way to go.

Hope that helps - just my opinion xx

ps - nurofen tends to work better than calpol for sam when he's teething, and Anbesol liquid is BRILLIANT! x

Hi Summer

Tyler has started being abit wilful at the moment, i think its because he's getting a little personality of his own and is also starting to get separation anxiety so i have decided to not try CC as i think it was stress him out and will maybe try later. he also has red hair and has a nightmare of temper. he's also starting to get worse at getting to sleep as he fights it, since he's starting to roll it seems to have got worse. He also has a tooth breaking through and this on top of everything else makes life very stressful at the moment.

These november babies are certainly making things interesting !!

Sarah+Tyler(28 weeks)

Hi
Freddie's another redhead Nov baby being more difficult than usual at bedtime! He's never been a brilliant sleeper - has trouble self soothing etc but where he just used to grumble a bit he now full on screams which I can't cope with hearing as he's NEVER been a cry baby. I'm not tough enough for CC (but certainly wouldn't judge anyone who did use it) so we're doing the gently gently approach - lots of cuddles and shhhh'ing (and they have to be mummy cuddles - daddy cuddles don't work at bedtime).
Think it might be separation issues and his general frustration about being tired and fighting sleep.

Sorry that's no help at all hun but just wanted to say you're not alone xx

Summer sweetie firstly (((((hugs))))))

Secondly I think Toby certainly has the capacity to try you, Dylan does this with daddy not because he's soft but because daddy is Dylans personal clown and why sleep when you can play?!

It could be seperation anxiety, I know this is normally 8 months but Dylan has it according to his swimming instructor and several others who have been near him recently he screams if a stranger takes him from mummy. Not quite the same as gorgeous Toby but same kind of thing.

Does his cry sound like a pain cry? Dylans i'm not sleeping cry is more of a yell than a cry its like a protest of no mummy I know im tired but I dont want to sleep, where as his pain cry makes me want to sob as it sounds painful. For this if he's dosed up on calpol, teething granules and bonjela all I feel I can do is shush and pat, give him his teddy and dummy or if its really bad and woken him up (it can be that he cries in his sleep) I will pick him up and cuddle him until he settles again (3am in a rocking chair 3 weeks ago springs to mind!)

Do you feel cc is right for you and Toby? As I messaged you earlier we only did 1 day and he's settled wonderfully for the past 2 since. I think its a wonderful technique for some but not all and no one should be judged for doing what they feel is best for their lo. But there are others you could try if you find it too heartbreaking or you feel Toby would benefit from something different? I know we tried gradual withdrawl (didn't work on Dylan) but there is also pick up put down, which I know Sim tried and there is a thread in November with a fao for her in which she says what she has done and how successful it was.

Sorry its so long, just want to let you know your wonderful and im sure master Toby will go back to napping for you soon, im sure its teeth hun, I really feel for them it must be awful at least we know why were in pain!

Lots of love

Em and Dylan xxxx

Oh hugs hun

"Another question - during the day i cuddle and kiss him all the time - i tell him at least once a minute how much o love him - am i making him too clingy?"

Please please don't think you are doing anything wrong, you are doing a fantastic job, and you aren't making him clingy. I expect he is probably being a bit of a monkey as you say, it's just the only way a very attentive mummy like you can sleep at night is if you are completely sure you have exhausted every possible source of discomfort your lo might, big might here, be experiencing. For the teething it sounds like you are doing everything you can do, and it sounds like you have a very good handle on things. I'm currently doing a masters in psychology so having just read three text books on child development, I'm full of completely useless advice on phases los go through :P. One thing though that I found useful was there is so much research that just isn't popular in todays parenting, but has been proven again and again is how children from infancy on wards really do influence and work to change their environment both consciously and unconsciously. There is a lot of attention given to what parents do but very little paid to the fact that our los are a very real participant in their life and their relationships with us.

Now that I've rambled I thought I'd ask how has lo been in the evenings? is he really active of an evening? Dd2 went through a really hard phase when she was about 9 months old, she was on the cusp of walking and it seemed that just as bedtime hit she suddenly wanted to spend hours trying to master this new skill. Maybe he's just got too many things left on his to do list for the day, he doesn't feel ready to shut off even though his little body is exhausted?

Sorry to be so little help.

xx

thanks ladies - i am sitting here sobbing as i feel so bad - i dont give a toss about me sleeping - infact i have a major issue with me sleeping as most nights i dream toby dies - so really not good at the moment.

i really think it is a yelling - being out of my cot is more fun kind of cry -

we have had the same night time routine since he was a few weeks old give or take an hour of course

at the moment 6.30pm 4oz bottle

7pm - bath

7.30pm - big bottle

bed

i cant remember what else you all said but hubby wants to stick with this for 10 days to see if it works - we are 4 days in now so should change - god i need to pull myself together.

Hi Summer, I'm ashamed to say that mine were still falling asleep on the breast at 7mths so I can't offer that much good advice really!

Just wanted to say that you can never cuddle & kiss your ds too much - it won't make him clingy. It is, however, quite usual for any baby to go through a clingy phase. It is no reflection on your parenting methods.

What I will say though is that if he is teething, then the cc won't work so well - so maybe it is teething? I always find that 9 times out of 10 it is teething lol!

Oh, and in my experience, some babies (not all) can be clever little things and can definitely 'try' you at 7mths! Your doing fine hon - some babies just need a little more persuasion than others to get used to a bedtime routine! Just keep on doing what you're doing and have the calpol close at hand.

LOL at the red hair thing btw - I am a natural redhead but none of my children are. I always got the 'fiery redhead' thing as well - my dd has a hint of red in her hair, but she definitely has the fiery personality!

Take care hun. xx

Ohh you poor thing. Toby is lucky to have such a caring mummy, you are doing a fab job.

I can't really help with any advice as it sounds like you're trying everything but remember this will pass. You will look back in a few weeks/months and you won't even remember how hard it was and how big your baby boy has got. He'll get there x

Summer had to reply as didn't want to leave you in tears. Just to echo my earlier sentiments re cc. You are being a good and brave mummy and only doing what you think is best. CC is 6 mths + so no worries on that point. If you know he is well fed and clean and dry and not in pain then go for it. I also do cc at night and then lots of cuddles, kisses during the day. Z has separation anxiety and has done for couple of months now. Mummy is best and he won't go to anyone so this could be adding to Toby's problem. PLease don't think that Toby will die. I too think of all the poss bad things that could happen when I leave lo in cot - think it's just what us mummies do. You are a great mummy. Hope you and Toby get a good sleep tonight. x

hey hun

if work it out let me now my sweet little princess has turned into a nightmare i do believe its winter babies as i had my other 3 in the summer so never went into the longer days etc she wakes at 5am every morning ready to play i cant leave her to cry as dont want to wake the boys up so comes in with us and then falls asleep again. naps she is a nightmare too again the boys used to always have naps in cot but i have come to the stage where she can nap where ever she likes as long as naps lol if she decides ahe doesnt wan to nap in the cot she will scream and scream and scream so ilet her sleep in pushchair i think for her its harder than the boys as she has to do school runs etc with them i could stay at home. i do believe they can push you she knows what she is doing when dady comes home she starts screamin and if i try and comfort her she arches her back swings her arms etc etc then dady will take her and she snuggles into him and smiles (such a daddys girl) she knows if she moans the boys will sit with her etc etc etc.

as for cc i did it with the boys i haven done it with her but only beacuse of the boys as they need to go to school etc and ds3 is already in bed when she goes and he needs lots of sleep as he is very poorly.

toula cries when i or daddy leave the room then you come back in and she is happy doing what she was doing im hoping its a stage i love every second having her but she is certainly more hard work than the 3 boys put together!

sorry rambling abit just thinking and typing

dont feel bad and try not to worry re dreams etc you are doing a great job he looks gorgeous im sure its just a stage (lets hope)

big hugs

amanda xx