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16/01/2014 at 01:18
We've had O on aptimal comfort for a week and a half after him having colic symptoms and neither infacol of colief helping with aptimal 1. He's been passing wind so much better but still screams at night and is very unsettled and wakes up suddenly screaming and is hard to settle so I'm pretty sure now the evening/nighttime unsettledness is something else. He can be quick sick with feeds and the HV thinks he had reflux too. We were prescribed infant gaviscon yesterday which we tried with the comfort milk but it ends up so thick it won't even come through the size 3 teats (we were using size 2 with the comfort alone) so today we've moved back to aptimal 1 and gaviscon.
O's earlier feeds were ok, he was slightly sick but nothing major, he had a bottle about 11:30 and had brought up pretty much the whole bottle in 4 bouts of projectile vomiting. We gave him one of his earlier feeds with the size 1 teats but he seemed to take ages to feed so we went back up to a size 2. The milk was coming out pretty well when I tested the temp on my hand, could the sickness be because the milk was flowing to quickly? How do you know what's 'ok' in terms of teat size? I'm not sure what to do now, do I stop the gaviscon and go back to comfort? Could the gaviscon actually make him more sick!? He's currently still wide awake although he's settled down with a dummy. I'm pretty sure he still needs winded but everytime I try he throws up.
I'm so sick of this, I just want it all to go away and to have our baby back that we had for the first 2 weeks when we got home.
16/01/2014 at 05:30
Hey lovely, was wondering how you were getting on. Sorry to hear you are still having problems :(
I'm not sure how much help I can be as we are mix feeding and haven't been giving bottles for long so I'm no expert but gaviscon can be given via a syringe after mixing with water too. It's a pain but might get round the teat problem? S has it mixed with aptamil comfort on a size 1 teat and still sinks a bottle no problem so I think he just has a particularly strong suck! I know one of my friends has real trouble with the aptamil/gaviscon combo thickness and she uses a size 2 teat on a Dr Brown bottle. We are using mam ones.
How long has he been on the gaviscon now? I know it takes a good few days to work. Has he been pooping ok? It can block them up a bit which could also be making him uncomfortable.
S has silent reflux so wasn't sicky, I'm not sure if I'm much help. MamaD + Tina Teaspoon might be able to as I think they both had sickness reflux. Hugs to you, I completely know what you mean about wanting your boy back xxx
16/01/2014 at 05:53
Were using mam bottles too but the one feed we tried with gaviscon and the comfort food it took O an hour to drink the bottle on a size 3 teat! I guess I need to remember that he would only actually be 2 weeks old had he made it to term and only weighs now about what S did at birth so I'm maybe expecting a bit much from him!
I wish we could still use the comfort food, I wasn't sure about going back to aptimal 1.
This was only his second day with the gaviscon. He has been straining a bit tonight but I think it's just for wind rather than a poo as he did go earlier this afternoon. I thought the aptimal 1 made him a bit constipated before so it's one of my concerns putting him back on it. He's just fed again and we stuck with the gaviscon, aptimal 1 and size 2 teats and there was no vomit fountain, just some normal small scale sick so maybe last feed was a 1 off. I've put him down bit he's flapping about, arms and legs going, grunting and obviously very uncomfortable. Not sure if it's just wind now. I absolutely hate this, I'm at the stage now I dread his 3 feeds from 7pm onwards and of course his terrible sleeps at night. Thanks popcorn, I appreciate you replying x
16/01/2014 at 06:12
That's ok :) hopefully that was a one off vom incident from him earlier. It is a really gradual improvement with the gaviscon.
We did a baby massage course when S was 4 weeks old and it's great for relieving tummy discomfort. Could you look into it? We had a routine of massage, bath, boob/bottle, bed every night for a while and it worked really well for settling S at night xxx
16/01/2014 at 09:32
I don't really have much advice but my little boy is a few weeks older than yours and it sounds like we had similar difficulties to you. He was fine for the first two weeks of life and then suddenly became so unsettled and it was very distressing for me. We think he had a mixture of colic and silent reflux as his symptoms were (lots of) sudden crying with a very pained expression on his face, usually starting about 30minutes after feeds but he would cry for hours. One day he started at 10am and didn't stop until 8pm! He would draw his knees up and was so difficult to comfort. He'd also wake several times in the night and couldn't be settled. He found it very difficult to get wind up when being winded and also seemed to find it difficult and painful to pass wind at the other end. He also had lots of hiccups. He couldn't be put down and I got so upset that he never had any "content" time but also wouldn't settle when he was held and I also felt very guilty that I wasn't enjoying him and didn't want to take him anywhere as he was so difficult.
We tried everything: infacol, dentinox, colief, gaviscon, ranitidine and I even tried a dairy free diet as he is breast fed and paid £56 for a tin of neonate privately as he tends to have one bottle of formula in the evenings incase he had cmpi. It was hard to know what did what but in all honesty, nothing worked. I felt at my absolute wits end and it was no comfort when people kept telling me that it does get better at 12 weeks as I felt I was wishing his life away and also it seemed like that would take forever. I even went to see the GP as I thought I was depressed but I was just sad that my baby was so difficult and finding it hard to cope. Other people kept telling me how they once had a difficult night/week with their baby which made me want to punch them in the face as it felt like no one understood and that I was just a bad mother who couldn't comfort her baby. People were forever making suggestions but I think gradually you find your own thing.
Anyway I suppose I am trying to say that I can understand some of what you feel. It's exhausting and heartbreaking and you feel like you're going round in circles. At the same time, although I didn't find it particularly helpful myself at the time, I just want to reassure you that it does get better. My baby is now 9 weeks and over the last week and a half we have seen a marked improvement. He still has the occasional episode of the old screaming but not everyday and he is now much more what I'd imagined having a baby to be like. He only wakes once in the night which to us is amazing. We are only giving him infacol now and he seems better at getting his wind up. We also tend to put him in the close caboo with daddy in the evenings and this does seem to settle him. Unfortunately I think it does have something to do with their digestive system maturing and my health visitor told me that boys are often worse.
I really hope you find something that works and don't have any advice re the milk but keep venting and use any opportunity you can to get a break as it really was the most difficult thing I have ever been through.
16/01/2014 at 17:42
I'm not sure how much help I can be as A is breastfed. But when he was on gaviscon we mixed with water and bottle fed during each feed - could you try that? It'll involve twice as many bottles which is a pain I know. We found that gaviscon helped for a week but we had similar problems to the ones you're describing - red in the face, grunting, flapping. His poos gradually became more solid and at that stage we stopped gaviscon and switched to ranitidine which has been much better.
I completely sympathise and understand that feeling of wanting the baby you had at the beginning back, I felt like that too. I cried so much thinking about how I was wishing the newborn days away, and thinking I'd never be able to take him swimming or to other classes because he was crying in pain so much of the time whenever he was awake. Finding the right combination of treatments seems to take forever because so much trial and error is involved but you will get there in the end and when you do you will rediscover that lovely baby. Yes there will still be rough days but you will have lovely ones too. We go to swimming classes every week now.
Shep so sorry you have been through the mill too.
16/01/2014 at 20:45
I really wish I had the magic solution I'm not really much help as I'm still trying to find the answer myself but can always listen when you're having a bad day as I know exactly how it feels. Just a thought but has anyone suggested trying him on LF milk? Only because if he's not better with the thickness of the milk (aptamil and gaviscon to thicken it) then it could be he was better on the comfort milk as it contains less lactose? Also, I find with A that she is more prone to be sick if her milk is even slightly warm. Please don't beat yourself up about how youre feeling - I promise you're not the only one and it is incredibly hard. Its exhausting mentally and physically and sometimes it can get too much. My best advice would be to let people help you - even if its just to hold O so you can go to the loo in peace!
16/01/2014 at 22:51
You can get variflow teats which have a 'X' instead of a hole so thick milk may flow easier in those.
Something else to consider if colic, reflux etc methods aren't working, is that it could be a cows milk allergy. My son had all the above symptoms and then some, and anti colic/reflux milk and meds didn't work. Neocate milk which is free from cows milk was a miracle cure and he tuned into a happy pain free baby
17/01/2014 at 07:48
Thankyou for all your replies, I really do appreciate it and it's comforting in a way that I'm not the only one feeling that way. Sorry for the late reply, I was shattered y'day and wasn't on much. We fed aptimal 1 and IG for his first 2 feeds y'day and he kept it down with just a little sick, however by the time we got to y'day afternoon he was screaming in
Pain with wind (he would pass wind, stop crying and his face relax then within a minute start crying again). He was also straining really badly so I put him back on the comfort food as I couldn't watch him like that. I also tried tummy massage and gave him a bath before his tea time feed and he managed to poo a bit although it was pretty dry.
Popcorn after you posting about S managing a bottle with gaviscon in the comfort on a 1 teat I did start to think that was strange O couldn't even manage with a 3. My HV called and I told her I had gone back on the comfort food as he clearly needs it to help with all the wind and she asked me to try half a sachet with the comfort and see if he could manage that. I did that at his 7pm feed and tested the flow before he started feeding and it was dripping out ok. O started feeding and was fussing terribly and after half an hour had only taken just under 2oz and started screaming. My H tipped the bottle up and there was not a drop coming out of it, nothing at all! He poured recently boiled water over the teat and the milk started dripping again. By this point O was in a state and I had made up a 4oz bottle of just comfort which he was eating well.
I was on the brink of tears and that was the gaviscon launched to the back of a drawer! My H settled O and I went to try and get some sleep before the night feeds. I couldn't stop thinking about the gaviscon and that I must be doing something wrong! I use the perfect prep machine which gives an initial burst of hot water which you add the formula too to kill the bacteria and dissolve and then it adds the correct amount of remaining water at a cooler temp to bring the bottle to perfect drinking temp. I was making up the bottle then adding the gaviscon so I added gaviscon to just the burst of hot water and it was pouring through the teat without any issue. I added the gaviscon to the water first to dissolve then added the powder then put it back on to get the extra water and O took the whole bottle with no issue so the whole thing has been my fault, I've not been mixing the gaviscon correctly and it's obviously been blocking the teat after a couple of minutes of feeding. I felt so stupid, I have no idea what I was thinking as obviously the powder isn't sterile so of course I should be adding it to the hot water just like the formula. So we've now had 3 feeds with aptimal comfort and gaviscon and only minor sickness. He was really unsettled again last night but it was definately wind, he was waking up crying and I would lift him and he would pass wind and calm down. So I'm hoping this will settle down again in a few days once the milk kicks in again and hopefully the gaviscon is helping with the acid at night so he's not screaming because of this.
Shep sorry you've had to go through this also, it sounds like you've had it way worse than I have, you must have been over the moon when things started to improve.
Thanks missus S, I'll definately keep that in mind if this doesn't work out for us. How is H? I share a birthday (albeit 30 years a difference!) with your little boy, can you believe he's nearly 1!?x
17/01/2014 at 07:55
Oh and ladies I know your LO's are a bit older than O and for those of you BF of mix feeding you might not know but I was wondering how much your LO's take at each feed? My HV has asked that I try to keep O around the 4oz each feed but he is always always looking for more than this but she thinks by letting him take more it causes the sickness but he literally cries and his mouth goes like mad, he throws his head side to side, chomps on his hand etc so I feel awful not giving him anymore and tend to let him take another oz or so. I am conscious this is a lot for his size though and he maybe is comfort feeding if he's had wind/acid?
17/01/2014 at 08:02
MDD I'm glad you found a good way to make up the gaviscon but don't be so hard on yourself. It takes time to get the hang of these things and you are doing the best you can. I've experimented with the best feeds to give S his ranitidine before and it hasn't always worked but we've got there now. I hope things start to improve for you all now xxx
17/01/2014 at 08:34
MDD, I've heard it said that reflux babies feed for comfort to soothe their throats but this hasn't been the case in my experience. A is a little and often girl and only takes about 3 or 4 ozs and there's nothing you can do to get her to have more - and she's still sick pretty much after every feed. It could be that the aptamil formula is thinner than the ar formula so doesn't fill him as much? I'd say go with your instincts as if you think he's hungry give him more. The HV only go on the average baby and they don't know your baby as well as you do. Also, I second what missus s says about it possibly being cmpi as well as reflux. it really does sound like A's symptoms before her milk was switched. Maybe ask for a paed referral as they're a bit more specialised in the field than HVs are x
17/01/2014 at 08:54
I'm not sure about the amount as we've only recently started mix feeding. S does have an ounce more than the box says for his age but he goes through the night now and has dropped a feed so I reasoned that it's ok. I think they do feed to soothe their little sore throats though x
17/01/2014 at 09:18
Thanks both. I'll just let him take a bit more if he wants it, certainly when he's crying for it.
MamaD if there is no improvement on the aptimal comfort and gaviscon then I'll try and push for a referral. Knowing my health practice he'll be at school before anything happens with that! I can tell my HV thinks I just read things online and then assume O has them which is so not the case. I know she'll see babies with much worse cases than O, but his best time of the whole day is now, after his first morning feed he'll settle and will probably sleep in his swing for an hour to an hour and a half. Typical her visits are either 10am or 11am so she never sees him upset, she probably thinks I'm a hypochondriac!
17/01/2014 at 14:03
I 2nd what missus s says about cow's milk protein intolerance. S was the same and didn't keep formula down at all until we finally got her diagnosed with cmpi at 3 months and moved onto nutramigen. It may be worth googling the symptoms and oush for a referall if you think they match. X
17/01/2014 at 15:01
MDD, I know what you mean - when we take A to the paed it's at her best time of day, she's just had a sleep in the car as its a 30/40 minute journey there and all the nurses have fussed and coo'd over her. I actually filmed her at her worst - when she was screaming and couldn't be consoled which is a nightly occurance for us and showed it to him. Might be an idea? Also, keep a diary of sickness and unsettled periods to show them too x
17/01/2014 at 19:32
I would try switching the formula up. And try giving your little O http://www.mylicon.com/infantgas If that doesn't work I would go to your doctor asap and try to get it figured out. It could be a allergy.
18/01/2014 at 00:12
We've had a really bad day with O. He's been really constipated and straining really hard for over 24hours. I called the HV to ask if there was anything I could try other than cool boiled water as he's screamed on and off all day, she heard O in the background and came straight up to our house and also arranged an emergency app with the GP. He's put it down to the gaviscon and had given us lactulose to try and get his bowels moving as he wants us to stick with the gaviscon a bit longer to see if it's helping.
As ever neither the GP or HV think it's anything other than colic as he's putting on good weight. I asked about comfort feeding as he never ever refuses a bottle and in fact he would feed more often if I gave him it, he would suckle away all day.
I asked about cmpi but they both just sort of brushed past it. I think the GP knows we've tried all the over the counter normal remedies though and I'm getting exhausted with this and he's agreed if were in this position or worse by mid to end of next week he will refer us to the paediatrician.
His little tummy is bubbling away tonight so hopefully he will get things moving as he's even more upset than normal.
I was reading about cmpi and not jumping to conclusions but he does have symptoms. He has colic symptoms, his wind is dreadful, without exaggeration he must pass wind easily 30 times a day if not more, often he will wake up suddenly in pain, trump and then dose off. He's really unsettled and cries a lot from about 8pm onwards, he has quite bad eczema (didn't realise this was a symptom!) and was prescribed cream and bath wash since about 2 weeks old which has really helped but his skin goes terribly dry if we don't use it, he always sounds very stuffy like he has a cold, he makes little wheezy/breathy noises when he feeds (had done this since he went onto formula), he's still being sick at every feed (although not projectile now) and his sick looks a bit like curdled milk with stringy mucus in it which is quite thick.
I'll see how we go this weekend and take it from there. I do feel a bit like the GP thinks I just want prescription milk which I couldn't give a sh&t about as I couldn't put a price on getting rid of this and settling O down. I know some of the LF milks you can buy from the chemist but I'll hold off at the moment as I'm worried about continually changing things and causing upset or further problems with his digestion/bowels movements etc.
Off to embark on my evening of next to no sleep!x
18/01/2014 at 01:02
The other symptoms I mentioned Henry had were the wheezy breathing, dry scaly eczema like skin and so on. It really does sound like an allergy to me :( the Gps DO shrug you off, they're useless. It took me driving Henry to A&E at 3am on a couple of occasions to be seen by a paediatrician (that or wait MONTHS for the gps referral) and instantly they prescribed neocate.
Be aware lactose free formulas still have cows milk on them. Lactose is just sugar in milk so thu just remove the sugar. Fine if its a lactose intolerance, big i it's cows milk it won't help x
18/01/2014 at 01:16
Thanks Missus S, I'm still hoping for a miracle over the weekend with just the comfort and the gaviscon but I know I'm going to be disappointed! Did H settle down quickly on the milk? Did it make a big difference to his sleeping at night? O is currently 'asleep' next to me and is making a whole host of very load uncomfortable noises and his face constantly screws up like he's about to scream, he will make loads of painful noises and then settle for 5mins or so then it starts again. It's impossible to sleep and awful to listen to :(
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