Goldenshades...you hit the nail on the head. They should redifine the wording of sections.

Mine was an EMCS...I was literally bleeding to death. My placenta had started to seperate and had I not had the section when I did them Amelia and I would not be here. I realise that gives me a very shaded view on sections. When I had a threatened m/c with my first born it was and still is on my notes as a threatened abortion. That sounds like I had been downing vodka in a hot bath. I hate that terminology!!! Same with sections. Mine was an emergency, an elective should mean that the mother NEEDS a section and a date and time has been picked in advance rather than an emergency. A lifestyle section should mean that the mother WANTS one..not NEEDS!!! I had an induction 16 years for lots of reasons but it is on my notes as a social reason... it makes me sooo mad!!!!

Diane, I am not getting at people who have had bad experiences..infact I think that is a good reason for a woman who NEEDS a section.


I do realise Mrs Setters that everyone is different. I have tried to point out though that I have been through some very difficult births. I have had severe PND, stitches in and out of my lady bits, tears, PPH, babies in SCBU...I could go on all night! I have not had it easy is what I am trying to say. However, no one in their right mind can deny that the moment your baby is placed on your chest is magical. It is a defying moment of bonding!!! Ladies who NEED a section are denied this but they know that it is in the babies/their best interests . However, to deny yourself this just so you keep 'honeymoon' fresh and the baby comes inbetween your hair and nail appointments is just something I cannot get my head around..

Remember, I am NOT having a go at people who are advised by their doctor to have a section....no way!!! I would 100% tell you to follow your doctors advice. The ladies I am against are those who have sections to fit around their social lives and to maybe even get a tummy tuck at the same time!!!!!!!!!!!
d x

ps ignore typos...1 and a half bottles of wine later...hiccup!

really well put gracie.

Do you mind asking how old you are?? I am just amazed that your mum was allowed sections at lest ( i presume) 20 years ago or so...

You have a great attitude and I wish you every good luck in TTC.

I too beleive in the natural process and cried for days when I was told I needed a section. To say i was gutted was an understatement. With my first born (breech) I was offered the choice of a section or a trial of labour.... my choice every time was labour. It was hard, long and and was not a pleasant time but I go to see her come out and felt the birth rather than laying there with a green cloth pinned up over my face and the feeling that my legs were still bent...

Your last sentence sums it up too... I should hve put the heading lifestyle sections not elective...

d xx

I'd like to see the use of:
lifestyle section (or lifestyle elective)
medical section (or medical elective)
early section (for someone due a medical who went into labour early)
& emergency section, where there is a significant risk as in your case DeeDee.

I really hate it when you see articles in the papers about "elective sections" and they are clearly talking about lifestyle sections and don't have a clue that sections planned for medical reasons use exactly the same term!

i think yes, i had a long labour with 1st, nearly died if i didn't have eme c section, so with 2nd i did not want that to happen again, i was scared and was so happy to know i having my babe on this day.

to add was not worried about first op and loved second they made me feel great, calm, like a real birth.

Dee dee, the way you are speaking about caesarian births is actually potentially quite offensive, even for those of us whom you deem 'allowed' to have one for 'medical' reasons. They are not substandard, mothers who have had sections should not feel 'unnatural' or any less of a mother because of how their babies were delivered. As a wise friend of mine put it, "It's not the end of the world, it's just how your child enters it'.

Yes yes, mothers who have gone through labour and delivery are CHAMPS, and those who did it without drugs get extra bonus points and free babysitting forever.... shall we stop judging other women on their mode of delivery?

At the end of the day, breastfeeding is best for babies and in an ideal world every mother would breastfeed - but this isn't an ideal world, our culture is not set up to adequetely educate and support women to nurse their babies and many choose (as is their right) to formula feed from birth. Would you like to discuss outlawing formula feeding? Because banning women from choosing caesarian sections is highly comparable.

I am with Mrs Setters on this. I can not understand why women are so quick to condemn those who decide to have a caesarean because it suits them. Why not?
Yes its major surgery, yes many women would not dream of putting themselves through that, but why don't we simply support a womans right to choose? It may not make sense to you, but why should your view outweigh what others may feel?

Until I became pregnant I always felt I'd choose an elective section, for so many reasons, and by no means because I felt too posh to push. I was fully aware of the risks, what would be involved and still felt it was right for me. What is wrong with that? Why do people feel the need to criticise that? I did not feel the need to pass judgement on those with differing views to me.

As it happens, now I am expecting my personal views of whats right for ME have changed and I'd like a natural birth hopefully in water. Again, thats my right to choose.

Women must do what they are most comfortable with, its best for them and their babies and I don't believe any of us should judge or condemn them for their birth choice. We certainly should not restrict the options open to women.

Its a shame women don't stick together more.

Good luck to everyone with whatever birth they choose.
x

[Modified by: manologirl on October 28, 2009 07:34 PM]

i am with mrs settlers too, when people hear c section and it was choice they think lazy, oh mum said i did not give birth, so what i carried both my lo whist being careful what i drunk and eat, all cos i didn't push them out still love them loads

Double post!

[Modified by: ColaBottle on October 28, 2009 08:39 PM]

I've had 2 sections myself~one emergency where DS needed resuscitating after getting very stuck during a 14 hour labour and one elective cos there was no way on this earth we were going through that again BUT if someone's had 2 normal, "easy" deliveries then I'd struggle to see why a she'd want a section for her 3rd delivery. Recovery is tougher, longer and very restrictive especially when you've already got LO's to look after. I do understand that it's handy knowing when baby number 2, 3, 4 or whatever will be arriving but can't help but think asking for an induction might be a better alternative. Just for the record, Dee Dee and I usually lurk in the same "born in" forum and and she's one of the most supportive, least offensive people that I "know".
Xx

There's a school of thought that suggests that artificial induction of labour is actually riskier than a planned C section.

well im not pregnant but i had an emergency section with my duaghter. i think if i was fortunate to get pregnant again i would seriously consider opting for an elective cesarian. Me and my friend were chatting about this the other day. For me it is the fear of can i actually birth a baby who could potentially be 9 or 10 pounds. Daisy was 8lb 8oz i had severe spd i was induced at 40 + 2 so if i was induced at 40 = 14 my next baby could be massive!!
I felt nothing but relief tbh when they wheeled me down to theatre and i never feel regret of 'birthing' my baby. but i did hate the whole planning of the induction. i would have loved my baby to come when sh ewas ready with my waters breaking or me ringing oh to tell him it was starting . so would feel the same if having an elective cesarian.

But yes it is major surgery i was in a great deal of pain. i can barely remember the first few days as i was on lots of pain killers. i hated staying in hospital for 6 days and second time round would be horrendous to be parted from my dd for so long. but yes i would still opt for an elective.

I too hate being labelled as to posh to push , and i have to say i think all women are different and most definitely handle pain differently. i have 2 friends who delivered babies on gas and air alone and DO act superior to me who was screaming for pethodine at 2cm dilated.

I too cant comment on your friend wanting an elective section as i dont know her but yeah she may well regret it. i certainly wouldnt imagine a c section is an easy option, but then i suffer with panic attacks and really struggled during my induction and examinations . maybee your friend has bad memories from her previous births x

Awww thanks Cola!!!!

Sorry, too many replies to recall you all by name.

Mrs Setters, did you actually read anything I wrote. I have HAD a section!!! I am not just speaking out with nothing to back it up. I think sections are marvellous things and it is true to say that when a section is really called for then a mother should feel nothing but relief that her baby is here safe and sound. The point I am trying (and according to you failing miserably) to make is that a 'lifestyle' section to fit into your life is not a choice I think a mum to be should be allowed to make. I don't think any woman without good reason should be able to go to any private hospital with her chq book out and say 'I want a section and I want it at this time and this date'.
I respect your point of view and that is why I posted this to see if I was been too harsh (btw I have not aired my views to my friend as i am not that insensitive). It was chewing me up inside and it has done me good to air it and get some views from all the lovely ladies on here.

I am glad that you have spoken against what I think as it gives me a different perspective.

I am going to ignore your BF remark as I feel that will just provoke a huge row on here...been there, read it etc.. best to keep to the point of this forum rather than go out of our way to try and cause an argument ( no one can wind me up..... I don't get into arguments...can't be arsed)

I agree that women should have a choice on her birth ...gas and air, water, epidural etc etc... she should NOT be able to chose a section when there is no emotional reason (def 100% non), no medical reason and no other reason other than vanity!!! I feel the safety of her baby is been overlooked just so her bits are not stretched any further by a 3rd delivery! Remember I am NOT against elective sections at all.... like I said a few posts back I should change this threads title to 'LIFESTYLE SECTIONS..YES OR NO!

Again, the last thing I want to do is offend anyone. Some people have chips on their shoulders and that is not my problem..

d xxx

sorry to gate crsah

i am with mrs setters on this

personally i had an em c section (altho according to some of the remarks on this page it wasn't an 'emergency' as i was not about to die there and then, i was in albour (12hours of active) and if something hadn't have been done there and then things might have gone very downhill but they din't wanna wait and see.

it juist seems to me that a;ot of this is point scoring of who had the 'right' or most traumatic birth.

if the baby arrives happy and healthy, who cares if the mum did or did not choose to have a section, like everyone says with bfeeding, her body, her baby, her choice.

xx

Hi Siany...you too have obviously not read my threads...

I am NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT against sections at all. Not against ones were the doctor advises you to have one. Yours was a much needed on and I totally agree that what mattered most was a healthy baby!!! Glad it all went well.

I am against (for the 1000 times) LIFESTYLE ones. The ones where a woman OPTS for one with NO medical or physocological reason whatsoever.
I actually disagree that it is not our business and we should not care and here is why. The amount of c sections is on the up. This is under investigation. The hospitals are under increasing pressure to lower the amount they perform. This would be a disaster. They could stop the wrong people having a section and this could lead to real problems. The ladies paying will still get theirs when there is no need for it at all. The ladies who NEED one due to previous sections, previous bad births, failure to dilate, large baby (you get the picture...ones who IMO NEED one and I totally support that) might be told they can't have a section unless a problem arises in labour. By then it might be too late. I would hate to see this happen. This is why it IS every womans business that these LIFESTYLE sections are not allowed.

Please read all my replies before saying unhelpful and pointless things in your replies otherwise this turns from a nice healthy debate into a fishwife type argument..
d xxx

Also, I agree that the health of the baby is of to utmost importance but please remember that the babies health can be compromised during an uneccessary section. During a normal birth as they move through the birth canal all the fluid and mucus that has accumulated in their lungs is forced out. A section baby does not have this and can become ill because of this. When a section is needed then the pros and cons are weighed and the Dr makes an informed and medical decision. When a lady that lunches gets out her chq book and demands a section as it suits her lifestlye then this is where my problems lie..

Can I just ask Siany and Mrs Setters (and anyone on the yes list) one question for you to answer yes or no too... thats all yes or no!!!

Q.... should a woman be able to walk into a private hospital with her gold credit card out and demand a lifestlye section when there is absolutely NO medical reason for one???? Yes or NO

I think NO..100% NO.

Elective sections for many reasons ...YES.

d xx
d xx

[Modified by: dee dee on October 29, 2009 04:57 AM]

Emergency yes, Convienient DEF NOT!

Your body is designed to go through childbirth, fine some women have complications etc and for whatever reason need a cesarean BUT not if your healthy etc. whats the point? surley labour/birth is such a momentus occasion she would want to go through the whole process????
Oh well, another debate that no one can win lol!!!! we all make our choices!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol:

Crunchynut, if you think this thread is nasty you've not spent much time on the internet! This is called healthy debate, which is what the OP wanted. Was I supposed to agree with her, againstg my better judgement, to maintain some kind of fluffy facade? It's snide comments like YOURS that provoke bad feeling, not responding to a civilised debate.

Anyway, Deedee, I think you're actually overthinking somethig that's none of your business, and I wonder if it has something to do with your residual anger/disappointment over having to have a C Section. I HAVE read your threads, and all I can hear is "I think it's wrong and therefore it should be banned". You're not coming up with any reasonable and justifiable arguments why it should be banned, beyond the fact that it offends your personal sensibilities. I'd love to ban lots of things that offend my personal sensibilities, including small boys with 'tramlines', Kappa tracksuits and public spitting, but I try to keep these fantasies of a more civilised society within my head. You're still persisting with the negative and offensive language surrounding sections, by the way.

Yes, I think that if a woman really wants a C section and wants to pay for it, she should be allowed to do so. She'll be in a private hospital, which by the way aren't included in the NHS figures for caesarian sections performed, which completely nullifies your argument that somehow the (very small) number of 'lifestyle' sections impact on medically necessary sections. What tosh. NHS obstetricians are, in my view, far too quick to suggest c sections when they are not strictly necessary, I can't ever see a situation arising where they would deny or delay one that was essential because of 'stats'. Trust me, I've spent the last three months helping my friend argue her consultant into letting her have a VBAC, even though in his words "a repeat c section would be easier".

Women choosing to have a section birth may have reasons that they are unwilling to share or maybe can't even comprehend themselves. You can't just march around removing that choice from them, in the same way that it would be barbaric to dictate that women must not give birth at home, or must not use any pain relief even if they want it! It is not for you, or for anyone, to dictate what constitutes a reasonable argument for having a caesarian, and what does not.

'Nature' intended us all to give birth in a field without any pain relief, without any syntocinon to speed up the delivery of the placenta, without medical intervention. Man and modern medicine have improved on nature, so you might say we've turned our back on the 'natural order' of things in any case.

what i think is if you need c section thats not your choice, if you feel you need one like a few of us, however wanting section because you want be home by weekend is selfish i think - i would love to give birth and to give up something you can do with ease saddens me.

Your reply MrsSetters only proves my point....ill put it down to pregnancy hormones and leave you be

If you've nothing to contribute to the debate beyond personal attacks, that's a splendid idea! Have a super day.