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16/10/2013 at 20:18
I hope you don't mind me posting like this bit you've given me some good advice in the past and I really could use it again!
Did you find that when your baby started on the lactose free milk things got worse before they got better?
The reason I ask is that now I have tried everything going for colic with no success my HV has finally started to take me seriously that this may be something else. She and the other HV's feel that it could be a lactose intolerance (I personally think its silent reflux) and have told me I've got to try her on lactose free milk for 5-7 days before they will consider reflux.
Shes been on in just over 24 hours and has done nothing but scream all day. Does it get worse before it gets better or have I got to endure this for another four days?
thanks in advance x
16/10/2013 at 20:34
Hey chick, With my E, I knew she was LI from birth, but no one took me seriously, we were getting 20 slimy green nappies a day at the point we went completely LF - got down to 5 by cutting dairy out solids wise, and back to her normal 1 from the day after we started using the LF so here, it was pretty soon-ish. I wouldn't say instant, as lactose stays with them a while, think something like 24hours per meal, but, within the first tin she was pretty much 100% better.
If the LF hasn't helped within a few days, i'd personally be tempted to say something else.
MissusS might also jump on, but, my LF formula is made with some cows milk, it's just hugely broken down, so it could be if the LF doesn't help, it's a cows milk allergy so don't let them fob you off about that either.
Re the reflux, what formula were you on before? The reason I ask is that the LF is much thinner than the Comfort formula we used.. When we started on it, I was wondering whether I were wrong about the Lactose issue, and whether it was indeed silent reflux, but figured that the comfort would help both because it is much thicker and so much easier to keep down if it was reflux. So, in that case I could see how it'd get worse IYSWIM?
Either way, I hope that you're getting some decent help and support from your HVs, don't worry if you have to keep going back, I really do think mothers know best.
There are lots of moms on here with reflux-y babies, so give them a shout too.. A lot of Es LI symptoms ticked the boxes of silent reflux too - the tummy girgling, the awful nappies, the rash, not wanting to lay flat (raising her up really helped), smelly burps and smelly breathe from burping up and then swallowing vomit, sneezing/sniffing and blocked nose as they sneeze thinking it'll help the acid, and craining the neck to one side (In fact, E still does many of this now). Though i'm not sure how this fits with the clockwork crying, unless it ties into nap time with laying flat?
Thinkin of you though, and your LO, it's awful x
16/10/2013 at 20:35
Sorry to butt in but you would need to be on the milk 2 weeks before you could see an improvement if its allergy/intolerance. That's how long it stays in the system for, well, till all traces have gone. I also thought my son had silent reflux, and he did, symptomatically, but the strongest meds wouldn't even touch it. Reason being it was caused by a milk allergy. Just something to bear in mind x
16/10/2013 at 20:39
Oh look I did wade in LM
I mean if you don't see an improvement in those few days just persevere as it CAN take 2 weeks, not always
I should say, we were also told simular to MissusS - that we could expect it to take up to 2 weeks to completely help, though as I said most of the lactose should leave within 24hours but some could remain - so while it was a quick fix here, perhaps might not always be the case. x
17/10/2013 at 07:23
Thank you both for your replies! I honestly don't think I'll last 7 days if she's going to be like this. I'm thinking I'll maybe phone Friday afternoon as I don't want to leave her like this over the weekend with no one I can call. I had mentioned to my H that I thought the LF milk wasn't as thick as the comfort milk and that's why she seemed worse. I honestly don't think she has an intolerance but I think the HV just needs to rule it out to cover their own backs before they can look at anything else, especially as you say when symptoms are so similar. At least she's doing something - the doctor told me I just had a fussy baby and basically just had to deal with it!
17/10/2013 at 07:32
What I don't get is that everyone who had ever taken a LI baby in get a told they are refluxy and prescribed baby gaviacon to try first!
That (the thickness) would definitely be an issue as you say if it's reflux. If you aren't happy chick, please go back. I know as I say it takes time but when you think about it. With my E she's intolerant so as soon as I stop putting in what upsets her things should improve, maybe not 100% but they should I think.? I'd ask the doctor for an explanation of why it would be getting worse as might be something he knows which will help you get through this.
As a side, have you tried the baby gaviacon? I'm pretty sure you are able to buy over the counter so might be worth a try.
Also, just putting in another idea but what's the cry like? Pain/distress or generally fed up? E is a lot hungrier on the LF stuff for some reason. But also its an acquired taste so she initially drank less so would be hungry iyswim. And cry for that but it was a different cry to her tummy hurting.
17/10/2013 at 08:25
It seems to me like a proper in pain cry. She'll be asleep on either me or H and all of a sudden her face will screw up and she'll start to cry. And then cry and cry! When I first went to the docs he said reflux and prescribed gaviscon but it just made her really constipated and that upset her! Then when I went back a different doc said if the gaviscon didn't work it must be colic so we went down that route. After trying the comfort milk, dr brown bottles, infacol and colief the only thing that made a difference was the comfort milk (only slightly) which for me was because it was thicker. As you say, if she was intolerant surely being on the LF milk would start making a difference straight away, even if only a small difference rather than things getting worse. When I tried the Aptamil LF I found she wanted feeding every 2 hours but I didn't like it because it didn't mix properly so I switched to the SMA. I've only ever used Aptamil with her so maybe the change in brand could be an acquired taste like you say?! I hate that this is a waiting game of trial and error until we find the right solution and in the mean time my little girl is so unhappy :-(
17/10/2013 at 08:50
That's what Henry used to do, wake up screaming :( so awful. LF didn't make a differe ce for us but that's because the cows milk protein is an entirely different allergy
17/10/2013 at 10:17
I'd personally go back chick, not to say you've expected miracles or anything else, but if the crying has gotten worse, then that tells my (obviously completely unqualified) that whatever you're trying isn't helping, it's so hard going on her and on you. My HV was in the end the most helpful, so go where you think you'll be taken most seriously.
E does the screaming thing too when she's bad (and it goes on, and on until the lactose is out of her system, poor love). But once it's gone, usually 3-5 bad nappies, she's "normal" again x
17/10/2013 at 11:01
Missus S, that's interesting - what other symptoms did Henry have? Is he on soy milk now?
Little Madam, not wanting to jinx things but she's been really sleepy today. I think it might be that she wore herself out yesterday though as its really fitful and not really a peaceful sleep. I will see how she gets on today and tomorrow morning I think and then give the HV a call Friday afternoon. I'm not convinced!
17/10/2013 at 11:07
No not soy, they dont recommend it to under 6mo in boys. Also it has a similar protein structure to cows milk so they CAN react to that as well.
His symptoms were classic silent reflux, couldn't lay flat at night, would fidget, grunt, squirm, only slept propped up, upright or on me. Phlegmy, mucusy sounding. Arching of back feeding, pulling off bottle, screaming after starting a feed. Nappies got continually worse to the point there was a mucusy substance there and also pink (blood?). The screaming fits would last hours at a time with no way to call him down. He would jerk his little body around in pain, pull his legs up to his chest, kick out, nothing would ease it except falling asleep exhausted. It got so bad we ended up in a and e a few times. All his awake time was spent screaming in agony. It's worth noting he didn't start like this, it gradually got worse and worse so even though it may not be this, please be mindful x
17/10/2013 at 11:08
Oh and his forehead was covered in what I thought was eczema/very dry scaly skin. Cradle cap was awful too and 'baby acne'. All cleared when starting the neocate milk
17/10/2013 at 12:34
Yup, spoke to soon! She woke up and started crying just as I was taking her sister for a nap!
Missus S, that's definitely something to consider if the LF or when it comes to it reflux milk doesn't work. Can I ask a really silly question? Did your little ones smile eventually? E, my eldest, smiled at 4 1/2 weeks. A is 6 weeks and still hasn't smiled. Like you say, if she's awake she's crying. I know all children are different and I shouldn't compare but I'm really worried that the poor love is just miserable.
17/10/2013 at 12:50
He started smiling properly around 6 weeks but honestly it was t until he started to Imprive on the right milk where he changed into a happy baby
17/10/2013 at 15:56
Another reason to get this sorted then!
I'm sorry to keep harping on but I've just given her about 2oz of milk, went to wind her and the whole lot came back up through her mouth and nose. Surely if its a lactose intolerance, she shouldn't be being sick on LF milk? x
17/10/2013 at 17:32
Your not harping on chick don't worry I know how difficult it is. E was the same smiled around 6 weeks but pretty much screamed from 4-10 weeks (we were told colic of course).
That doesn't sound right to me but only based on my experience with E who on the whole was never sick much.
When you say LO is worse, worse than on the comfort? It is a tough one in that case as of it were milk allergy, I'd think it'd be the same. I'll Google see what I can see on that.
I really feel for you. I know the feeling where each day seems an eternity (listening to screaming) and where you dread the day. X
17/10/2013 at 18:21
Thank you, it helps being able to sound things out to people who've had similar experiences. She definitely seems more unsettled on the LF milk than on the comfort milk and she wasn't particularly happy on that!
18/10/2013 at 22:15
If the anti reflux milk is going to work, how long do you think it'll be before we see a difference?
19/10/2013 at 00:20
Anti reflux milk is just thicker iirc, so that would stop reflux immediately I imagine. It's preventing milk and acid coming back up so in effect shouldn't get the symptoms
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