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01/04/2014 at 14:05
For ladies with babies with reflux or cmpi/lactose intolerance when did you start weaning and were you encouraged to wean earlier or later or just 6months?
O is on nutramigen and while it's made an amazing difference in terms of his general settledness and obviously sorted out his tummy pain, we still have a problem with sickness. After our last paediatrician appointment they put him on domperidone but it seemed to give him tummy troubles again and after 4 days of a screaming boy we stopped it and he went back to how he was. I told the HV we had stopped and that's the paediatrician only just written out to us about it (this was about 6weeks ago!)
We have an appointment with the paediatrician in the middle of May to discuss weaning when O is 6months and she did sort of casually mention that was only if we didn't HAVE to wean before then. I mentioned this to my HV and she said just to ignore the paediatrician and she will give us all the info for weaning and that I have to do a milk challenge first (so reintroduce the 'normal' formula to see if O can cope with it) and we would wean after this which would be after 6months.
The paediatrician wants to see us and will talk to us about weaning O early, I can only assume this is because of his reflux and sickness, did anyone else have to or encouraged to wean early and did if help? I feel like I'm getting completely opposing messages. Also with O being early do I have to take that into account when thinking of the 6month situ, so do I go from his actual age or his corrected age? Despite being a wee button when he was born you would never know he was early and is putting on weight like a champ and feeds a lot! I am looking forward to weaning though as O's milk is disgusting (although he doesn't seem to bother) and sometimes he gets really upset after throwing up if it's been particularly bad but I don't want to anything that is detrimental to him.
Sorry for the mammoth post, also i asked my HV why the guidance is 6months and she said something about the babies intestine not being properly sealed when they are little and that's what your waiting on happening, so is it to do with their digestive system and gut?
01/04/2014 at 16:31
Hi Hun, it is so confusing and I'm sure you'll hear pros and cons for both so ill just tell you out story! As you know A had reflux and cmpi. We were advised by paed to wean at 17 weeks as she was still quite sicky but I felt she was way too little. At 21 weeks we saw him again and he advised the same and by that point she was grabbing food off my plate so felt she was more ready. I started of with baby rice and then pear puree. This went well, she really looked forward to food. The only down side was she went off her milk a bit (I don't blame her, the stuff must taste rank!) and was a bit more sick with milk. The paed says this was because the milk was thinner and the food would be sitting better. The problem we are having now is she has had reactions to soya milk (we were told to try this in food but can't have as a drink until 1) and also banana and mango. The paed has now told is to avoid these as well as egg, papaya, pineapple, melon, kiwi etc. I'm also having trouble with any kind of textured food as her reflux had given her a more sensitive gag reflex. Goodness knows what I'm meant to feed this poor child! She's got to have skin *** tests done at 9 months to check exactly what she's intolerant/allergic too. The paed had said to "try" reintroducing milk at 9 months but the dietician has said they don't really recommend it until 1yr. They usual process I believe is via a ladder so milk baked in something like a biscuit, then milk cooked in something ie scrambled egg, then a milk product like cheese, then milk or something like that (I may have missed out a few steps I've forgotten!)
Not sure if any of that is any help or if I've just confused you more! Little welsh one and Missus S are probably good people to ask and I'm sure will be along soon!
01/04/2014 at 17:07
Oh MamaD bless her wee socks, poor wee mite. Do you think she had these allergies or do you think early weaning had anything to do with it? Have you had to do the milk challenge? This is what I'm dreading more than anything, I've to do it before we wean so start of say with 2oz of his old milk and 4oz of the nutramigen and see how he goes. My HV said that most people are reluctant to do it, eh no wonder!!!
O is 17 weeks on Friday (or corrected age he would be 12 weeks today no idea if that makes a difference!) He now knows what his bottle is and smiles and pulls his hands up to his face when you show him it! He's also a good watcher, the whole time we are eating he watches us and if you hold anything out to him he opens his mouth (just to confirm here I've not actually fed him anything!!)
I'm not sure what we should be doing. He is a hungry wee guy, I now make up 5 7oz bottles a day and he normally takes a good 6 from each (occassionally 5 if he falls asleep).
We're away on holiday in 3 weeks so don't really fancy doing anything before then (and certainly NOT the milk challenge) so might wait until were back before we look into anything further when he'll be 21/22 weeks. It's so hard because if I thought it would help him I would do it but I'm worried incase I do him some damage especially with his issues with the cows milk or lactose.
What a mission this all is!!
01/04/2014 at 20:05
I honestly think she has these intolerances anyway as I've only tried soya and banana in the past couple of weeks and she's a week off 7 months. I really don't understand why your HV is making you do the milk challenge already - A's dietician was adament that we just left it till she was at least one. If he's cmpi/lf I don't think a few weeks will make a difference for him growing out of it. At the end of the day, he's your baby so do what you think best. If it were me, I'd leave it till after I'd been away just for ease. Do you have any idea if you want to do blw or traditional weaning (or a combination of both?) X
01/04/2014 at 20:28
I so so so do not want to do the milk challenge. If anything I would rather try it in real good once he starts weaning and test the water that way, not just go back to the old formula. I'm dreading it, I know he's not just going to have magically grown out of it in a couple of months! The pain he was in before was dreadful and I don't want to go back to that not even for a day.
I think we'll do a bit of a combination of purée and blw/finger food so happy to purée to begin with and also encourage him with feeding himself (although I can't see him needing too much encouragement!)
I'm definitely not doing it before I go as he's doing so good now I want to enjoy the time away.
01/04/2014 at 20:56
It was definitely the worst time of my life when A was going through it, to have her screaming in pain and not be able to do anything about it :-( I wouldn't be in a hurry to go back to that either. Have they said how they want you to do it as in how long do you have to leave it between trials, how many times have to got to try before they're happy he stil can't tolerate?
01/04/2014 at 21:04
I'm sure she said I try it before we wean and if he's still the same we wean dairy free and then try again at a year. I've already said to my H, if he's showing even the tiniest bit of similar signs even after 1oz of formula I'm not doing anymore. I'm sure as hell not doing it for a few days, not a chance!!
My mum couldn't believe it either. She didn't understand why we wouldn't just keep going with the milk he's on and either try and introduce it through solids or cooking of wait until a year.
She's coming out on Monday up speak to me about it again so I'll see what she says then but I'm certainly not keen to do it. It must be the norm here though as it's the one thing the HV and paediatrician were in agreement on! Joy, I can hardly wait!!
01/04/2014 at 21:17
It astounds me how different the info and advice we're both being given is so different! At least if he does react you'll know for sure and won't have to try it again for a while - its just getting that one time over and done with that's the problem!
01/04/2014 at 21:23
I know, I'll try a bottle but I just know he's going to be the same my H is dreading it even more than I am. He's already said just to tell the HV that I tried it and it didn't go well but I'll feel too guilty!
It is ridiculous how much the advice changes. I have zero faith in this lot at the best of times and knowing that there's no consistent approach doesn't help, I'm sure if anyone's off on a tangent of doing their own thing it's this lot of nuggets!
01/04/2014 at 21:28
I'd had the same thought as your H - naughty but at let it would delay it for bit and actually give home chance to outgrow it! Our poor babies, not even weaning is simple for them :-(
01/04/2014 at 21:37
I may change my mind on that yet! It is a shame, I'm really hoping solids helps with O's sickness and I will be pleased for him to have something other than the stinky milk. I do feel really sad though that he can't just get a taste of things when we are out and about as he won't be allowed them (not that I would make a habit of it but icecream stands out in my mind).
I'm praying he doesn't have any other allergies but I know that's so not going to happen! I hate bananas, they physically make me wretch and am allergic to kiwi's so probably not off to the best start. Although I do love milk and have loads of dairy so it might not mean anything!
01/04/2014 at 22:28
There is no reason for you to wean before 6 months. S was drinking over a litre of Nutramigen a day and i still held off until virtually 6 months when she stole some toast. There is some evidence that early weaning can cause food allergies, so in my mind when your child already has one intolerance, why risk another? My paediatrician supported this view. As for the milk challenge, we were told to wait until a year when her gut will have matured more. You need to give her system time to recover from the milk reaction, hence the wait. When we did our first milk challenge it was under the guidance of the hospital and started with introducing milk in cooked foods, then cheese and yoghurt. Milk itself is the last to be introduced and only after she has no reaction to foods before, in which case you then wait another 6 months before trying to reintroduce. We've yet to get past the yoghurt, so there's no chance of me giving her milk and she's 17 months.
I would be asking for expert advice before introducing milk so young, rather than going by a comment from the HV who is unlikely to be a cmi expert. If it doesn't feel like the right thing for you to do, then don't do it. If the HV puts pressure on you, ask where the evidence is for you to start a milk challenge so early and question why she hasn't suggested trying it in small amounts of food first to enable a tolerance to develop. You can also ask to be referred to a dietician who will go through the weaning process with you.mwe had a group appointment at the hospital where we tried out some dairy free foods.
01/04/2014 at 22:36
Thanks LWO. It's both the paediatrician (who I know does the dietary side of things at the hospital as my GP told me) and my HV who have advised I should do a milk challenge before we wean and the paediatrician who suggested early weaning (my HV said 6months and told MD to just ignore her and follow what she gives me).
It took weeks for either of them to take MD seriously that I thought O even had cmpi so I'm already less than blown away by them and they're not helping things. If I had any idea what I was doing in terms of the weaning I would just ignore them both!
02/04/2014 at 03:11
Another one that will tell you our story as opposed to knowing what to advise you.
B was eventually diagnosied with a type of coeliac disease at just after his fifth birthday and it has been a heck of a journey to get there! Originally he very obviously had a problem with diary products which is a side efect of untreated coeliac disease. We are currently doing the milk ladder now at 5 and a half and I was very nervous but because his coeliac is okay he is breezing through it - albeit he was VERY nervous abotu it as well.
So lets go back to the beginning! Awful sickness and screaming, hated lying down, you know the scenario yourself. Wasn't gainign weight well but my concerns were dismissed as a neurotic forst time mother (they so haven't been with my second born!)
We started weaning at around six months. OMG the difference it made. I started with purees thickened with porridge (bizarrely enough choose a pretty much wheat free introdution to foods). This meant that he could pick up biscuit shaped lumps and feed himself plus standard BLW stuff. On Christmas Day he had a massive plate of stuff piled in front of him and happily helped himself.
He very quickly decided himself to refuse milk because he made the connection between having milk and vomiting. He only vomited after havign the milk. I was bfing at the time and it was rather annoying. Embarrasing confession - because nobody could confirm what was wrong with him and I was really worried about his calorie intake I used to sneak bottles of milk into him whilst he was asleep As he was asleep he would automatically suck at what was put in his mouth. His bed was tilted and because he was laying still it meant he was less likey to vomit afterwards. However I now know you should never do this
After he was weaned he went from being below the 25 percentile for weight to over the 75th and has stayed there until he was idagnosed and is now roughly the 90th percentil for weight (all along he has been over the top of the graph for length/height until recently I think he is now 99.6th percetile for height)
I hope this makes sense/interesting/helpful read. I am typing in the dark as my daughter is in bed besdie me!
02/04/2014 at 03:39
QI, hope you don't mind me asking - did B react to any other foods and how did he eventually get diagnosed with coeliacs?
02/04/2014 at 06:48
I can't offer much advice but are they suggesting you do a milk challenge before 6 months then wean? It's a bit of a contradiction in advice from the nhs as one of the reasons they suggest waiting until 6 months is because there's a higher risk of reactions to food. That might not be what they've said, I might've misread but if not, I'd go back to them with that.
Ultimately, you know what is best and they can't make you wean early or do a milk challenge. My hv almost insisted on S being given baby rice at 4 months but I just flatly refused. I know it can make a massive difference to reflux babies but only as a last resort if medication doesn't work. S's reflux was controlled well by 4 months so I didn't see any reason to.
If you want to wean early I really hope it works for you and helps I'd sickness but don't feel pressured to introduce milk products before then. We've only just started blw and S hasn't had milk yet, I was worried it might upset his reflux so just taking it slow.
This has been a bit rambly but really just trying to reassure to trust your instincts x
02/04/2014 at 08:33
02/04/2014 at 09:44
This is really interesting as I've never once been advised to wean early, despite Alex's reflux. However having said that he is 21 weeks now and I think we will be starting soon as he's showing all the signs of being ready. My HV told me that guidelines are changing soon to wean by 6 months rather than at 6 months as waiting can sometimes mean missing the window of opportunity for introducing flavours and textures whilst baby is still at their most receptive.
02/04/2014 at 10:40
Oh ladies thanks so much for taking the time to reply.
QI same q's as MD how did he get diagnosed? Do you think weaning earlier wold have helped or made things worse? Does your daughter have any allergies (thanks very much much for sharing)
Popcorn the paed and HV both want me to do the milk challenge before we start weaning, so say when O is 5months of so. My HV then wants me to wean after 6months but the paed is talking about early weaning as he is throwing up (can that do damage to his insides!?) so they want to see us back early and I am guessing she's going to ask us to do the milk challenge earlier and then wean earlier.
Popcorn/TT are you both silent reflux of actual vomiting? While I now feel that O isn't in pain from the reflux (the ranitidine helps) he couldn't get on with the domperidone so he still throws up all the time, I can get through 3 bibs and a muslin or 2 at every feed and I'm not talking changing them cause they're a bit wet, they would soak his clothes otherwise.
He's usually not to bad with the sickness but I've noticed as he's getting older that if he has a bad feed he does get noticeably upset by it (well nobody likes being sick do they!) you can see the distress in his wee eyes and he'll have a cry.
WH does S have any other allergies now? Can he take milk? That's reassuring to hear that it was ok even with him being prem.
I'm not going to do anything hasty. I'll speak to the MV on Monday but I'm very reluctant to do the milk challenge, that's literally giving him something again that he can't cope with and is allergic too. It just doesn't sit well with me!
02/04/2014 at 17:54
A has good old vomity reflux and the ranitidine is the same for him, the pain has stopped for the most part but he is still sick a lot and we can't lie him down too soon after a feed unless we want to see it come back up afterwards. We get through a lot of bibs and clothes here too - why oh why do they always turn their head to be sick so it goes right down their arms? I'm not looking forward to weaning vomit as at least milk vomit is relatively inoffensive.
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