Pregnancy & Birth Clubs <
14/08/2014 at 09:30
14/08/2014 at 09:31
I did write in several paragraphs - I don't know where they've gone and editing doesn't make a difference. Sorry!
14/08/2014 at 10:19
Firstly, A Massive hug to you and a big Hello! Lovely to see you back - even though it's for not so lovely reasons.
I wish i could give you more advice from a 'been there' perspective. W has been a really good sleeper up to quite recently where he started waking in the night and crying so hard that we had to get up to him (he sometimes would wake, have a wee gurn and then go back over)
Almost every night we were up for an hour anywhere between 12 and 2 trying to get him to go sleep again. He'd fall asleep in our arms almost instantly, but the minute we put him down he'd wake and start crying again. After an hour with him I had to put him down and walk away because he was quite clearly tired, and i couldn't keep this up as i still had to get up for work in the morning, and he just wouldn't settle on H at all, so it was all me.
I thought we could try riding it out and letting him cry, but there were a couple of nights where it was due to his nappy leaking that he'd woken, so it was a full change during the night, so if he was really upset, we'd need to go and check him for any leaks. We eventually took the approach that if we felt we needed to get up to him, we'd go check that he wasn't wet, given him a cuddle and lie him down and tuck him in and walk straight back out again. He would cry so hard and my heart would break when it happened, but i really didn't want to get into the habit of him getting up in the middle of the night for cuddles on me. a rod for my back i wasn't willing to make. It has worked, and after a couple of nights doing this, he seemed to settle back down again. We also started turning his star projection off when we went to bed as we wondered if the brightness of it was disturbing him during the night.
What sort of things do you get up to during the day with S? We have found that letting W run riot around outside (regardless of the weather) has been brilliant and properly tires him out. He still sleeps for a bit during the day, usually an hour or 2 in the morning, and the same in the afternoon, although we never let him sleep past 4.30.
14/08/2014 at 12:26
We went through this a few months back at 10/11 months. I did a variation on 'gradual retreat.' The first night I got up and down laying her back down for 1.5 hours! Now, after a month or so I can put her down and leave the room. I may have to go in and lay her down or susssh her a couple times some nights but generally she's asleep in 10-20mins with no fuss, just lays there til she's asleep. Have a google and if you have any questions give me a shout.
14/08/2014 at 14:19
So how many naps is he having in the day? Could it be him trying to cut down? At the age of around 12/13 months Alex started to transition from 2 naps a day to just 1 and it caused all kinds of havoc. We've only just now at 19 months got to the point where it's relatively consistently a nap for around 1-1.5 hours sometime between 10.30am and 1.30pm, and he's in bed asleep by 8pm most nights waking around 6.30am. I see that most other toddlers seem to have an afternoon nap instead but there's no way I could keep him awake until 2pm and if he was sleeping at that time then he wouldn't sleep at night, so the earlier nap is working well for us.
There is also a sleep regression around 18 months which he could be having a bit early. Over the summer we did seem to have a long phase where he just wouldn't go to sleep until 10pm, but we were lucky that when it did come to bedtime he'd go down.
S does seem to be having rather an extreme time of things from what you've written. Perhaps you need to re-create some positive associations with bed and his room. Does he ever play in there? Have you ever put him awake into his cot and played with him?
14/08/2014 at 14:24
Poor you on the whole we have been lucky with sleep so not sure how useful my suggestions will be but figured anything is worth a go sometimes.
So Disco had rotten sleep at the 16/18 month mark in the end I concluded it was a combination of things, Teeth, a developmental spurt and too much day time napping,
Cutting day time naps was hard but in the end we found ditching the morning one and moving his afternoon forward worked well however on days where he was just to tired he napped in the am (no more than 2 hours) and then went to bed a little earlier if needed in the evening. Flexibility with naps worked well too so some times short am and short pm nap sometimes just one long nap depending on how he had slept what we had been doing etc.
Getting him to nap before completely exhausted helped to so we do a song and a story before nap tie in his room 9same as bed time) and he knows what's coming.
Once we realised his teeth were really grumbly at night we discovered calpol was our friend so if he was in pain we would does him then read a story while it kicked in and he was then happy to go back in his cot.
some nights he just work for no apparent reason but desperately cross/ upset I wondered if he was dreaming (have no idea when dreaming starts) again if he was in this much of a state sitting with him on our lap and doing a story until he calmed down before even trying the cot was the best method we found. (and some nights i still ended up lying on his floor in the pitch black until he was asleep enough that I could leave the room.
I'm with RKB getting outside as much as possible or seeing a friend etc helps lots to.
Do you have a night light? Disco likes it pitch black but I know other people who's children have to have a night light because if they wake up in the dark they don't like it.
14/08/2014 at 15:32
Thank you all for your very helpful replies. Have read my post back and think I was a bit OTT and ranty, sorry! I have a bout of the lurgy to boot so things seemed a bit bleaker than they maybe were… A day in the park and a portion of my Mum’s chilli has sorted me out a lot – I still want to get this sorted of course though!!
RKB – Nice to see you too! I must make more effort to come on :) Sorry you were having issues with W, that sounds horrendous, especially with you being at work. I’m really pleased things have settled again, it’s a tough method to try but the habit thing at their age is also such a worry, glad you have your fab sleeper back! Totally agree about going out, we do loads every day partly as S would get bored and needs lots of stimulation, and partly because it does affect his sleep if we don’t. We always go out at least once and / or have kiddies over to play. He has a much better social life than me! So I’m satisfied that from that perspective he is wearing himself out enough, he’s definitely tired, which is kind of frustrating as he really wants to sleep but can’t shut off.
Porkchop – Thanks for this, am glad it worked and is continuing to for you. Our original SS method was a kind of version of this, I never got to the retreat stage but didn’t really feel I needed to, but now I do think it needs to be more ‘formal’ for want of a better word. I will have another look at it, I’m just not sure how it will go with him being SO strong-willed at not lying down in his cot and screaming at the very suggestion of it…
Saisi – So he’s having two atm as when we tried one it was a bit of a disaster for a week and though it made bed time easier he was totally exhausted, having only 50 minutes max in the day and it didn’t seem good. Was unsure whether to persevere but we then went on holiday, had some awful nights so in the day he did just nap when he wanted, when out and about, which we needed to just go with really. I was thinking of capping the morning to 30m (I think it’s a Gina Ford suggestion) so his main nap would still be in the afternoon then cut out the morning completely, but his body clock seems the other way around – long in the morning, cat nap in the afternoon so maybe I would be messing with nature?! Today he did 1.5 hours this morning and 35 minutes this aft – woke at 2.40 so am thinking / praying this might work well for bed time as he isn’t napping too late in the day. That’s definitely been an issue before. Did it take A long to adapt to a one nap routine? Do you just put him for his nap when he’s tired then rather than a time? Does that work ok or drive you a bit mad WRT to plans? Was he initially only having a short nap when you switched? Sorry for all the questions but it sounds similar to S so maybe I should have persevered for longer with the one nap a day.
Drifter – That’s true we have had a lot happen in the last 7 weeks, all at once almost – heat so no grobag, 5 teeth and dummy ditching so it’s hard to know which is the problem – it may not just be the dummy. I didn’t even know about the sleep regression, nice! It sounds like Disco and Sam are quite similar with still needing sleep at some point in the morning, do you find it ok to just go with the flow as to what time he naps? Does it really interfere with plans? Or does it just happen now and again that you change the time if he’s very tired? I have done putting him to bed earlier actually on the days when he’s had a mega morning nap that started later - so say waking up at 12ish, which would mean his PM nap would be too late in the day, and that does seem to have worked. If that’s something that works with Disco I may well just go with that… It’s this catch of needing him not to be overtired to combat the cot hate, but trying to stick to a routine to hopefully get him happier and more secure in
14/08/2014 at 15:47
We have never had a schedule for napping so it has been fairly easy to work around when he seems readdy to nap. Some days (like when we have toddler group) Napping in the am isn't an option but as I help clear up he often has a packed lunch in his buggy when I tidy as I know the trip home he will fall asleep and then wake up hungry rather than because he had a full rest.
I meant to say playing outside helps. Discos room is predominantly for sleeping in he has 1 or two soft toys in his cot and nothing else as he will use them to keep them to keep himself awake when he is in the mood.
I don't know if its luck but when we put disco down for a nap we talk about being tired and how he can have a play when he wakes up. Now more often than not he will tell us when he is tired which is great (although he is a little older than your little one) I think talking to them about it does help in the long run.
moving from two to one nap isn't as easy as I have made it sound and for a while I would say more often than not we had 2 naps that were both shorter and a grumpy boy but we got there.
Oh another thing I thought of is when he had a bad night we used to let him lie in but that was more trouble than its worth so ensuring he gets up at a similar time every day has really helped with the flow of our day. He just has an early nap if needed
14/08/2014 at 16:13
Yep that's A, he prefers to nap in the morning. I can't see how him napping in the afternoon would work for us at all, so maybe it would be easier for you to go with S on this.
It did take him a little while. He would have his morning nap (which yes was shorter than it is now), but then be unable to last past 4.30pm and would fall asleep then and have a very late bedtime. Unfortunately I was 1st-tri pregnant then so gave in because *I* wanted a nap at 4.30pm too!! Then he started being able to last until more like 5.30pm and he'd just have an early bedtime, now his bedtime has been pushed back and his only nap has increased in length.
Yes I just put him down when he's tired... now to begin with this varied timing-wise, but it's fairly consistently around 11am now. At nursery he sleeps between 12pm and 2pm but that still works with bedtime so we kind of just ignore the 2-day change to routine! He asks for milk, we go upstairs and I change his nappy then he crawls into his bed and I lie with him while he drinks his bottle. 95% of the time he will be asleep before he gets to the last ounce. His bedtime routine is essentially the same. I draw the curtains and turn the monitor and nightlight on and he knows it's sleepy time. It can be a bit annoying when it comes to going out but I'm happy to just schedule round him. If for example I want to go and visit my grandma for lunch, I will leave the house around 11am and put him in his buggy and he'll fall asleep in it and usually stay asleep for an hour and a half, so it's not like I need to be at home. He would also fall asleep in the car, but I don't have one.
14/08/2014 at 18:30
Ooh thank you both so much, I am feeling LOADS better about things now and a wibbly flexi-plan is forming in my head!
Drifter - Thanks for all the info and the advice about consistent wake-ups, we haven't been following that as if it had been a bad night, were anxious about him catching up (plus it meant I could do!) and I've always been quite laid back about times, going more for a pattern, e.g. nap 2ish hours after getting up etc. BUT I have been thinking of the getting up time and how, when it varies it disrupts the whole day and ruins our currently difficult and fraught nap pattern so I will definitely correct this from tomorrow! We had sleep cues that worked in the past, saying sleepy time, the same music, a book and grobag but I admit that we have probably not been as into them recently as so much has gone to pot, but again we'll try and stick to them, as he does yawn every time we put him in his sleep bag! We do lots of outdoor play, plus his many pram/sleep walks so that's good. I should at least be grateful that this has kicked off in Summer! Thanks again for all the info, it is good to know that being flexible and changing things when needed doesn't break the sleep bank - makes the one nap transition seem a possible!
Saisi - This is all golden and sacred information, thank you! It does sound like they are quite similar. I will follow his body clock then - it always seemed wrong that the standard thing is for the PM nap when he has had long morning naps for several months. I must have been mad to even try to swap them around when there was enough going on as it was! I think I will do the normal morning nap then, which will be 930ish until 11ish and either an earlier bed time or a short cat nap at 2ish for 30 minutes depending on the various factors. It's good that A has set times now - sorry, I meant was it restrictive not knowing day to day what time he would nap at, but it doesn't sound like it that's a problem now. I'm very happy to fit in around S' routine, and as you say can always take him out during nap time in the pram or car - that worked well before, it's just all gone so t*ts up lately that I don't know where I am! I've just seen you are almost due! How exciting - good luck! :)
16/08/2014 at 07:01
Lamby they are all so different I hope it gets better soon for you it's horrid when it all becomes a battle. I have never been one for set times but just realised one day that we definitively had worse naps when we let him lie in. He will have an earlier nap if he has had a bad night like you I like patterens but set timing never really worked for me (I remember feeling like a crazy person for the first 6 months of discos life because his day time napping was rubbish and everyone around me had these lovely baby nap times they planned their lives around. Still that same now but I just do what works for us rather than the majority and we are much happier)
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